[AMADALA]

Originally Posted by pokerlan

Pokerstars can change the outcome of any game. They can factor a winning and lossing % to each name that signs on. If you have complained in the past you will very rarely win. If you do win a hand by chance, you will probably wind up splitting the pot. I have sat at 38 different 10/20 NL tables the other night and each table I sat down I alway got a 3 or 4 drop on my closed card. The odds are highly impossible to drop 27 3's and 24 duces and all other under cards were under 6. for a total of 38 hands.
So last night I tried again with 100k starting and my losing % after 50 games was 96% FIXED, Rigged or whatever you want to call it.Please do not play with real monies you will definetly lose in the end. programs can be tamper with.

FINALLY SOMEONE ELSE WHO HAS FIGURED IT OUT FOR THE SCAM POKERSTARS IS REALLY RUNNING ON INNOCENT PEOPLE!!!!

[shazam]

Originally Posted by stu_ungar

Some of you have been saying that poker sites can rig the outcomes of hands. What does the poker site have to gain from rigging it so that you lose your money to another player. If you are playing a $20 sng there is not much point of making you lose. If you were playing against the casino fair enough they would be able to gain something. But you cannot blame the site or casino due to bad luck.

The poker site has a lot to gain from rigging it. They want you to play as many tournaments as possible so that they take more rakes. If a tournament ended up being played for 2 hours without too many players dropping out then all those players aren't buying into a new tournaments - which means Pokerstars daily revenue would take a hammering!!

Pokerstars is a business. Just like any other business their main priority is to make as much money as possible. This means they need to turn over their customers as fast as possible. In tournaments this means that they need to set up a large chunk of players to take a fall early in a tournament. Usually these players will be dealt pretty good cards but not quite good enough and they will be disgruntled at losing with good cards, think they can do better, and enter another tournament - depositing more money into the Pokerstars bank account.

Think about this: Say there are 10,000 people playing tournaments and for example each player contributes 40 cents to PS. That means Pokerstars earnt $4000. Now if all those players stick around, winning and losing hands and generally lasting too long in their tournaments Pokerstars isn't going to make anymore money. But if half of those players get eradicated from their tournaments in the first hour and rebuy into new tournaments then PS will make another $2,000. If this happens every hour it means that Pokerstars will make A LOT more money every day. (Obviously these are only hypothetical numbers which are at the VERY conservative end of the scale. ie There are WAY more players than 10,000 and PS takes much bigger rakes consistently than 40 cents).

[Schly]

Originally Posted by jrlarson

I joined Poker Stars in November. I am a reasonably good, conservative player. I played the one table 3$ progressive table and took my initial $50 investment to $280 in 2.5 months.

Then the cards began to change dramatically on all in showdowns for me. In the last four weeks I have dropped straight down from $280 to $180, and nothing has changed but the odds defying outcomes of showdowns where the pre-flop odds were all in my favor. I started keeping track about 2.5 weeks ago on all-ins when I knew that something was going on. The odds defying results are 11 against me and 1 for me as follows (remember these were all in's pre-flop:

11 LOSSES:
kk to 44 (4)
AsKs to k4 (kk4)
a6 to kq (k)
kk to tt (jq98)
ak to a5 (5)
jj to at (a)
(all in after flop) 8j (8j) to 97 (turn river = 56) that one was beyond funny
(all in after flop) qj (q high flop) to ad8 (two diamonds turn & river to save him)
aQ to kq (k)
AJ (tka8) to Q3 (j)
A6 to 85 (8)

1 WIN:
A4 to QQ (AA4) (I guess giving me one big improbable was supposed to make me feel better about the other 11, right?

The Poker Starssite is a joke. They must be leveling out good players to ensure that bad players get some victories and hang around their site.

I really don't want it to be true, because I really like pokerstars, but man, I've played a couple thousand tourneys there in the last 2 years and it has not been pretty.

Let's put it this way, I play low limit single table 3 dollar or 6 dollar SNG's and the occasional 12 dollar SNG.

I went from a 100 dollar buyin to zero in about a month. Fine, ok, I'm learning the system and dodging the Donks.

I buyin again for 100, it lasts a month and a half. Great. I can live with that, it's fun, right?

I buyin for 75. I've got it. I've learned to be tight/aggressive, how to read players online, and most importantly, how to play pokerstars crazy flops and suckouts. I made it to *almost* 300 bucks in six months.

Then everything changed. I could not win a tourney if my Mother's life depended on it. In fact, the people that used to play alongside me (on UltimateBet) began calling me "4th place". No matter what I did, or how premium my cards were or how far into first I was when we were 4 up, I ALWAYS got taken out in 4th place. Usually by 2 or 3 consecutive, ridiculous beats. Flopping a set, betting aggressively preflop after spending the entire tourney establishing tight, non chasing play, and I'd get called by someone with a middling hand and they'd suckout, or flop some ridiculous chase cards that they could not lay down to any bet.

This went on for about a month and I went from 29x.xx dollars to ZERO. Insane.

I didn't change my play, I didn't do ANYTHING differently, I just could NOT place in the money in more than 1 out of every 10 or so tourneys when I was placing 4 of every five tourneys.

So, I cash in for 50 more recently and again, it was good for a month, then straight down. Now I'm back to about 50 and I think I want to cash out because there is no way for me to win, no matter how good the cards are for me.

So, where to play? That's the 100 dollar question for me. How's Full Tilt?


EDIT: BTW, I play once a week in a private tourney on pokerstars.com and the cards fall COMPLETELY differently. Very normal, very predictable poker. There are some suckouts, but that's poker, but you can reasonably calculate your odds with the hand you play.

[AMADALA]

Originally Posted by stu_ungar

There is no such thing as a rigged poker site. If it was rigged then why would the millions of people who play on stars still play if they are getting screwed. You are all victims of bad luck which is going to happen in poker. You could complain and then say Pokerstars is rigged but it happens.

Also some of you listed hands that you have lost due to a BAD BEAT but have not posted any hand histories. How did you play the hand? Could you have gotten away from it? Did you not have a read on the player? What were the percentages? All of these things have to be taken into consideration.

If you are 60% to win the hand it means you will win 3 out of 5 times. The 2 other times you will lose and when it happens you will be shouting. WHAT KIND OF CALL WAS THAT!!! YOU DONKEY!! It was not a donk move you simply fell to the percentages.

Some of you have been saying that poker sites can rig the outcomes of hands. What does the poker site have to gain from rigging it so that you lose your money to another player. If you are playing a $20 sng there is not much point of making you lose. If you were playing against the casino fair enough they would be able to gain something. But you cannot blame the site or casino due to bad luck.

Finally to everyone who is complaining about losing money to bad luck or thick bonehead plays on your behalf why are you still playing? Who is forcing you to play poker? If you are complaining then go away and take your attitude with you. Trust me the only people who will miss you will be the players who are used to taking your money.

I do not mean to be rude but what you all are complaing about is poker. It happens to the pro's but they just get on with the game. So suck it up or quite playing. Simple as that.

you are not really listening to what the brothers are saying, it is more than a bad beat!! a bad beat is one thing, no chance in winning because of the handicapp pokerstars assings to each name is another. remember, more deposits and constant turn over equal more possibilities for them to make billions with the money they keep on hand from you all.

[stu_ungar]

Everyone who complains about online poker being rigged are just made at how they lost their money. Poker is about skill and luck. Luck will sometimes prevail. It happens everywhere. The amount of bad beats I took from pacific poker were terrible. I don't think it is rigged though. It happens in poker. Evryone who complains are just sore losers.

If you say that online poker is rigged. Lets see some hand historys. Just because You say this is what happened does not mean it is true.

Show me some evidence (Hand Historys) and then I will never give a word against you.

[stu_ungar]

Originally Posted by madmax155

I suggest you stick to good old titan poker or poker.com which has a large amount of freerolls

Plus the last sentence of this persons post can tell me everything I need to know. FREEROLL players are very very loose. I have had a very successful stint on pokerstars with me winning quite a few tourneys there. So have many people I know on other forums. So if we can win then why can't you? Is it because you are all fishes? Or because Pokerstars is "rigged"

[stu_ungar]

Don't forget that when you lose your money in a cash game, someone else has won the money. That money does not go to pokerstars. If you all think it is rigged don't play there then. If you want to go somewhere else and loose your money to an "un-rigged" site then be my guest. But to think you will get a different piece of luck somewhere else is called being a fool

[kbraver]

Well I am not a losing player, but I am convinced pokerstars is rigged. Their formula consists of building pots by creating heavy lead changes with more frequency than the odds would normally dictate. This moves SNGs and MTTs quicker and thus generates more profit for stars by collecting more entry fees. Another spillover effect of this programming is that weaker players tend to dominate more experienced players because the largest pots tend to be the "worst beats" or lowest probablilty outdraws. I have one of the top sharkscope rankings in Holdem Heads up and I have pretty much given up on pokerstars because I can't justify losing 80% of my all ins to an opponent constantly calling or pushing with 5 outs or less. Is there anyway to prove this for the world to see?

[stu_ungar]

Quit complaining and quit blaming pokerstars. If you don't like it stop playing there. Simple as. And stop spamming up forums with your endless drabble.

[AMADALA]

Originally Posted by stu_ungar

Quit complaining and quit blaming pokerstars. If you don't like it stop playing there. Simple as. And stop spamming up forums with your endless drabble.

there is an obvious lack of intelligence on your part as far as online poker being rigged goes. POKERSTARS IS NOT RIGGED in your eyes, i have read what you have written. can you honestly sit here and tell everyone that POKERSTARS does not assign a handicapp to each player??

it is impossible that i am constantly winning on party poker and in real life games, and continue to lose my freaking ass on the most obvious set ups on stars!!! there is no way that that site is legit!!! no way!

not even about the bad beats, it is just so damn obvious when they want you to lose. they will give a player with a higher handicap 10-3 offsuit with 4 left in a sit and go, he is low so will go all in trying to steal your BB, btw, you obviously call with AA, and you lose???????? in a 215 sit and go???? more than once when your balance nears 0??? wake up and smell the coffee.

i won a 33 yesterday at party, 320 players, i dealt with 2 others. zzzzzzzzz

pokerstars let me win a few dollars in tournys but made sure to take it all back in sng's.

i was leading the sunday million a few months ago with 22 players left, i went from 6 million chips to 0 in a matter of 3 hands?????? fck you poker stars!

8 hours i wasted for 2500 bucks!!! QQ,AA,KK--- one after the other?? lost to 777,23456,AJ. makes me wanna puke!!!!! it was already determined that i would make only 2500 that day. on my way to 22nd, i played perfect. dished out a few bad beats. received a few too. but they gave me cards that i had no choice but to play all in! i lost three straight hands and that was that!

giving a player like me 2500 was just enough to make me play for another week before another deposit! i swear on my daughter that i did not place in one sng after that. from 55-525, nothing!!!!!!!