[sirbflean]

these partial hand histories are posted from one 45 person play money sit and go at pokerstars.
the entire tournament dealt 452 total hands, thats all hands at every table including the final.

>drive2go: shows [Ah Ac] (four of a kind, Aces)
>*** SUMMARY ***
>Total pot 2025 | Rake 0
>Board [9h As Ad Kd]
>Seat 1: JAMES620 (big blind) folded before Flop
>Seat 5: lexxis32 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
>Seat 6: _coon_dog27 folded on the Turn
>Seat 7: drive2go (button) collected (2025)
>Seat 8: Omnishank (small blind) folded before Flop
>
>_coon_dog27: shows [7s 7h] (four of a kind, Sevens)
>*** SUMMARY ***
>Total pot 14350 | Rake 0
>Board [7d 7c 5d 2h Jh]
>Seat 1: Omnishank folded before Flop (didn't bet)
>Seat 3: Big Al 5860 folded before Flop
>Seat 4: lexxis32 folded on the River
>Seat 6: niro69 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
>Seat 7: Sir.B.F.Lean (small blind) folded before Flop
>Seat 9: _coon_dog27 (big blind) collected (14350)
>
>*** SUMMARY ***
>Total pot 9150 | Rake 0
>Board [Qc Ah As 4s Ad]
>Seat 4: lexxis32 (big blind) showed [Ts Ac] and won (9150) with four of a
>kind, Aces
>Seat 6: niro69 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
>Seat 7: Sir.B.F.Lean (button) showed [8s Qs] and lost with a full house,
>Aces full of Queens
>Seat 9: _coon_dog27 (small blind) folded on the Flop
>
>
>Total pot 18300 | Rake 0
>Board [7h Jh 7c 2h 7d]
>Seat 4: lexxis32 (button) showed [Qc Qh] and lost with a full house, Sevens
>full of Queens
>Seat 6: niro69 (small blind) folded on the Flop
>Seat 7: Sir.B.F.Lean (big blind) showed [Jc 7s] and won (18300) with four of
>a kind, Sevens
>Seat 9: _coon_dog27 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

now im no mathematical prodigee... but my spidey senses
got a little tingly.

[sirbflean]

I would also like to share a couple of annecdotal experiences i have had playing at pokerstars. once upon a time i was playing 25/50cent no limit 5 card draw. needless to say i was playing ultra tight, and the players around me were really betting the farm. i was seeing 5 dollar raises pre draw on every other hand. so here i am ultra tight at this loosey goosey table just waiting for the moment to strike when i got a monster hand. THEN low and behold i got a big blind special. dealt me a str8 in my first 5 cards 10-A. now im in my big blind, im tring to think how i can suck as much money out pre draw before they see me stand pat. just as im starting to count the money i will win on this pot the strangest thing happened. everyone folded! it went right around the table fold fold fold fold fold. i didnt even get a chance to raise my hand i just collected the blinds and my jaw hit the floor. this loosey goosey table that had not laid down a hand in an hour folded to me as if my cards were transparent. then the next hand was dealt and they went right back to business. i swear i heard the twilight zone theme in the background.
another time i was playing a 3.30 + rebuy no limit hold-em satellite to the sunday million (you know the one) well here i am cruising at about 14,000 chips about 3g more than the avg, we were well into the second hour (no rebuys) and i get an -. (another big blind special). everyone folds, the button flat called and the small blind folded leaving just myself and this one guy. we were pretty evenly matched in chips, his stack being only hundreds of dollars more than mine. (im sure that you are all jumping ahead to the inevitable conclusion here[yes i lost]). so here we are heads up seeing a cheap flop. BANG off comes . i just flopped the nut flush, so i do what any self respecting gambler would do, i checked. so it comes to the button and he thinks hes the man, bets 2000. i can hardly contain my joy(i have the nut flush on the flop) so i re raise the punk another 6k just to let him know im not to be triffled with. well to my joy he came over the top all in....i QUICKLY call and am releived to find that he has - amounting to a pair of nines. well im elated!here i am poised to take the pot and become a single digit tourney leader (i think it woulda put me 7th or so) then the turn comes a . the cards are coming quick at this point since we are all in. then my world comes crashing down around me. a fell on the river making his full house 9's full of queens.........AH my beloved pokerstars! how could i ever doubt you?

: p

[sirbflean]

here's a couple classics ripped from the innumeral pages of pokerstars lore

PokerStars Game #9910311303: Hold'em No Limit (100/200) - 2007/05/14 - 15:34:17 (ET)
Table 'Campanula' 9-max (Play Money) Seat #4 is the button
Seat 3: 20 seconds (40337 in chips)
Seat 4: Sir.B.F.lean (36100 in chips)
Seat 5: sudic (33500 in chips)
Seat 6: CJP23 (85300 in chips)
Seat 7: so2much (29000 in chips)
Seat 8: pjm54 (24700 in chips)
Seat 9: PillemannGTI (3900 in chips)
sudic: posts small blind 100
CJP23: posts big blind 200
so2much: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Sir.B.F.Lean[Qc Ks]
so2much: checks
pjm54: folds
PillemannGTI: calls 200
20 seconds: raises 200 to 400
Sir.B.F.Lean: calls 400
sudic: calls 300
CJP23: calls 200
so2much: calls 200
PillemannGTI: calls 200
*** FLOP *** [Ad Jd Tc]
sudic: checks
CJP23: bets 2500
so2much: folds
PillemannGTI: folds
20 seconds: calls 2500
Sir.B.F.Lean: raises 7500 to 10000
sudic: folds
CJP23: calls 7500
20 seconds: calls 7500
*** TURN *** [Ad Jd Tc] [5d]
CJP23: checks
20 seconds: checks
Berrigan_2: bets 10000
CJP23: folds
20 seconds: raises 10000 to 20000
Sir.B.F.Lean: raises 5700 to 25700 and is all-in
20 seconds: calls 5700
*** RIVER *** [Ad Jd Tc 5d] [Qd]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
20 seconds: shows [8s 8d] (a flush, Ace high)
Sir.B.F.Lean: shows [Qc Ks] (a straight, Ten to Ace)
20 seconds collected 83800 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 83800 | Rake 0
Board [Ad Jd Tc 5d Qd]
Seat 3: 20 seconds showed [8s 8d] and won (83800) with a flush, Ace high
Seat 4: Sir.B.F.Lean(button) showed [Qc Ks] and lost with a straight, Ten to Ace
Seat 5: sudic (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 6: CJP23 (big blind) folded on the Turn
Seat 7: so2much folded on the Flop
Seat 8: pjm54 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: PillemannGTI folded on the Flop


PokerStars Game #9910513055: Hold'em No Limit (100/200) - 2007/05/14 - 15:46:15 (ET)
Table 'Campanula' 9-max (Play Money) Seat #3 is the button
Seat 2: randaddy4444 (196390 in chips)
Seat 3: 20 seconds (13400 in chips)
Seat 4: Sir.B.F.Lean(22000 in chips)
Seat 5: sudic (22200 in chips)
Seat 6: CJP23 (151137 in chips)
Seat 7: georg2007 (40600 in chips)
Seat 8: pjm54 (7600 in chips)
Seat 9: playdaddy (14600 in chips)
Berrigan_2: posts small blind 100
sudic: posts big blind 200
randaddy4444: posts small & big blinds 300
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Sir.B.F.Lean[Td Ad]
CJP23: calls 200
georg2007: calls 200
pjm54: calls 200
playdaddy: calls 200
randaddy4444: checks
20 seconds: raises 13200 to 13400 and is all-in
Sir.B.F.Lean: calls 13300
sudic: calls 13200
CJP23: folds
georg2007: calls 13200
pjm54: folds
playdaddy: raises 1200 to 14600 and is all-in
randaddy4444: folds
Sir.B.F.Lean: calls 1200
sudic: calls 1200
georg2007: calls 1200
*** FLOP *** [8s Ts 3s]
Sir.B.F.Lean: bets 7400 and is all-in
sudic: raises 200 to 7600 and is all-in
georg2007: calls 7600
*** TURN *** [8s Ts 3s] [Ac]
*** RIVER *** [8s Ts 3s Ac] [Tc]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
sudic: shows [Js Qs] (a flush, Queen high)
georg2007: mucks hand
sudic collected 400 from side pot-3
Sir.B.F.Lean: shows [Td Ad] (a full house, Tens full of Aces)
Sir.B.F.Lean collected 22200 from side pot-2
playdaddy: shows [2s As] (a flush, Ace high)
Sir.B.F.Lean collected 4800 from side pot-1
20 seconds: mucks hand
Sir.B.F.Lean collected 67700 from main pot
sudic said, "wow"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 95100 Main pot 67700. Side pot-1 4800. Side pot-2 22200. Side pot-3 400. | Rake 0
Board [8s Ts 3s Ac Tc]
Seat 2: randaddy4444 folded before Flop
Seat 3: 20 seconds (button) mucked [Qd 8h]
Seat 4: Sir.B.F.Lean (small blind) showed [Td Ad] and won (94700) with a full house, Tens full of Aces
Seat 5: sudic (big blind) showed [Js Qs] and won (400) with a flush, Queen high
Seat 6: CJP23 folded before Flop
Seat 7: georg2007 mucked [9c 3c]
Seat 8: pjm54 folded before Flop
Seat 9: playdaddy showed [2s As] and lost with a flush, Ace high

the preceeding 3 posts are by no means a definitive representation of pokerstars. nor will i attempt to prescribe any conclusions. i found this site and was reading threads as you are (those about pokerstars/rigged in particular[draw from this what you will]) and thought these might exclamate many points in the previous threads.

* some/a name/s have been changed to protect the innocent
FIE YOU...... stu ungar every time i want to use that as a login for anything to do with poker you have been there and taken it! FIE YOU

[sirbflean]

PokerStars Game #9924583803: Tournament #50347790, 300+20 Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2007/05/15 - 11:50:34 (ET)
Table '50347790 1' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 5: Sir.B.F.Lean (11075 in chips)
Seat 8: philc1983 (2425 in chips)
philc1983: posts small blind 15
Sir.B.F.Lean: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Sir.B.F.Lean [Jh Js]
philc1983: calls 15
Sir.B.F.Lean: raises 120 to 150
philc1983: calls 120
*** FLOP *** [Jc Ks 7c]
Sir.B.F.Lean: bets 150
philc1983: raises 150 to 300
Sir.B.F.Lean: raises 960 to 1260
philc1983: calls 960
*** TURN *** [Jc Ks 7c] [Jd]
Sir.B.F.Lean: bets 510
philc1983: raises 505 to 1015 and is all-in
Sir.B.F.Lean: calls 505
*** RIVER *** [Jc Ks 7c Jd] [2h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Sir.B.F.Lean: shows [Jh Js] (four of a kind, Jacks)
philc1983: shows [5s Kc] (two pair, Kings and Jacks)
Sir.B.F.Lean collected 4850 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 4850 | Rake 0
Board [Jc Ks 7c Jd 2h]
Seat 5: Sir.B.F.Lean (big blind) showed [Jh Js] and won (4850) with four of a kind, Jacks
Seat 8: philc1983 (button) (small blind) showed [5s Kc] and lost with two pair, Kings and Jacks

[mtpkts]

I agree but not just about poker stars. Any poker software would have these same abilities. It amazes me to no end that people truly belive they are being given a fair deal with online poker. I love the game of poker, but will never deposit online. Anyone who knows anything about software will tell you that software can easily be manipulated for the software owners advantage.

[StriderTacticaL]

Yeah your right. No matter how much any site tells you they are certified with all kinds of companies that they deal randomly or anything, it's software, so anything can be manipulated. However, I know that poker sites make money taking rakes and entry fees from their tournaments, and I can imagine how much they would make running a 24/7 online poker room with players from all over the world generating millions of dollars a year, so in that sense, I trust them.

[sirbflean]

here are the kinds of bad beats that pokerstars doles out on a regular basis

PokerStars Game #9969061915: Hold'em No Limit (100/200) - 2007/05/17 - 21:35:33 (ET)
Table 'Bellona V' 9-max (Play Money) Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: topsgt (8400 in chips)
Seat 2: Stever23 (5205 in chips)
Seat 3: stompersgir (7900 in chips)
Seat 4: befrank1 (15880 in chips)
Seat 5: SonOfABluff (13531 in chips)
Seat 6: peifryguy (42640 in chips)
Seat 7: Berrigan_2 (33475 in chips)
Seat 8: Nextall (11600 in chips)
Seat 9: nova109 (27600 in chips)
Berrigan_2: posts small blind 100
Nextall: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Berrigan_2 [Jd Kh]
stompersgir said, "no wayyyy"
befrank1 said, "won,t stop talking about it"
stompersgir said, "no $$$$ involved"
nova109: calls 200
topsgt: calls 200
Stever23: calls 200
stompersgir: calls 200
befrank1: calls 200
SonOfABluff: raises 1000 to 1200
stompersgir said, "why should he fight free"
peifryguy: calls 1200
stompersgir said, "get injured again"
Berrigan_2: calls 1100
stompersgir said, "black guy?"
Nextall: raises 1000 to 2200
befrank1 said, "not a pro fight"
befrank1 said, "yes"
nova109: calls 2000
topsgt: folds
stompersgir said, "ok"
Stever23: folds
stompersgir: folds
befrank1: folds
SonOfABluff: calls 1000
peifryguy: calls 1000
stompersgir said, "when is it?"
Berrigan_2: calls 1000
*** FLOP *** [6d Ts Qh]
topsgt leaves the table
Berrigan_2: checks
Nextall: bets 1000
befrank1 said, "no date late this year dec prob"
nova109: calls 1000
SonOfABluff: calls 1000
stompersgir said, "ic"
peifryguy: raises 4200 to 5200
Berrigan_2: calls 5200
Nextall: calls 4200
nova109: calls 4200
SonOfABluff: folds
*** TURN *** [6d Ts Qh] [Ah]
stompersgir said, "how is ur guy doing now...better?"
Berrigan_2: checks
Nextall: bets 4200 and is all-in
nova109: calls 4200
peifryguy: raises 4200 to 8400
Berrigan_2: raises 17675 to 26075 and is all-in
nova109: calls 16000 and is all-in
stompersgir said, "since he got out of hospital"
peifryguy: calls 17675
*** RIVER *** [6d Ts Qh Ah] [Ac]
befrank1 said, "hey if dog fights again you won,t have to get him a xmas gift he will sleep through the holidays"
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Berrigan_2: shows [Jd Kh] (a straight, Ten to Ace)
peifryguy: shows [Td Tc] (a full house, Tens full of Aces)
peifryguy collected 11750 from side pot-2
nova109: mucks hand
jebo18 joins the table at seat #1
peifryguy collected 48000 from side pot-1
Nextall: shows [Ad As] (four of a kind, Aces)
Nextall collected 50400 from main pot
stompersgir said, "ur funny frank"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 110150 Main pot 50400. Side pot-1 48000. Side pot-2 11750. | Rake 0
Board [6d Ts Qh Ah Ac]
Seat 1: topsgt folded before Flop
Seat 2: Stever23 folded before Flop
Seat 3: stompersgir folded before Flop
Seat 4: befrank1 folded before Flop
Seat 5: SonOfABluff folded on the Flop
Seat 6: peifryguy (button) showed [Td Tc] and won (59750) with a full house, Tens full of Aces
Seat 7: Berrigan_2 (small blind) showed [Jd Kh] and lost with a straight, Ten to Ace
Seat 8: Nextall (big blind) showed [Ad As] and won (50400) with four of a kind, Aces
Seat 9: nova109 mucked [9s 8c]

[enter_issues]

I always had suspicious about pokerstars, but I always though it was just bad luck.

That was until I began a small $2 buy-in tournament for fun. First had I get . I raise 10 times the big blind. With everone folded, the small blind goes all-in. My hand wasn't terrible, so I call him. He had , and I was curious as to why he went all-in.

Flop comes out , then on the turn. Good so far- then finally, the river comes . I called it simply bad luck since he did have about a 30% chance of winning pre-flop.

Then I decided to play a simple $1 SNG since the tournament was cut short. First hand preflop I get pocket rockets. I raise again 10 times the big blind, and another fellow goes all in. Calling, I find he has AK off. With a huge advantage this time, he flops a king. Still in good shape after the turn, the river is shown as another king, busting me again. I began to get suspicious as to my similar betting pattern and simultaenous river beats. That being said, I search for the first guy playing in the first tournament who creamed my big slick with Q9.

Watching multiple hands, things seem normal - that is until someone goes all in. First hand I observed, a guy under the gun raises a significant amount pre-flop with pocket jacks. Folding around the table, a short stacked fellow on the button moves all-in with pocket 10's. The same guy who beat me the first round (I'll call him Donk) on the small blind goes all in with 67 suited. The guy with JJ calls. The flop comes , flopping a straight for Donk. Turn is useless for all players, and the river comes a 10.

Ok, maybe tha'ts good luck.

Game continues normally , and another short stack moves all in with . Donk calls 40% of his chips with . Now this gives the shortstack a huge advantage. Flop comes out with two clubs. The turn comes out a club, and the river comes out another club, giving Donk a flush.

Then I knew something suspicious was going on, but I continued watching.

Finally, game not even progresses a round, and someone before Donk goes all in with pocket sevens. Donk had to call with 60% of his chips, but he also goes all in to have other people fold. His plan worked, only to show his 35 of clubs. I was laughin when the flop comes , when suddenly the turn shows a giving donk another straight. River doesn't help the other guy.

Now of course you may say the worse hand still has a percentage win against better hands, but in truth to catch something big simultaneous times moving all-in is highly suspicious. Something is defintiely up with Pokerstars, and I'm trying to find out it's pattern of having players inject more and more money.

[sirbflean]

ok i have heard all the rhetoric that a site making millions..... why would they be rigged... ok some simple math.. lets say they have about 6000 real money tables running, and the avg. rake is $1.00. lets say they deal an avg of 20 hands per hour at each table. that would be about $2000 a minute. now lets say that they can generate MEGA action by flopping nut flushes beaten by a boat at the river, you are generating a higer rake. this is the sole reason that they may rig.... imagine you could take 100 mil a year honest or you could generate 10x that by being slightly dishonest... now why would a site that generates millions upon millions upon millions a year rig their software? you may ask why would they risk losing that revenue? they are already trying to count the hundreds of millions that they have already generated and if caught they face the costa rican govt and their laws ( who are no doubt receiving millions anyway) you tell me what is to stop them? if you cant see the dealer deal why are you risking your real money. play play money enjoy your wins, swear at your bad beats, BUT please DO NOT deposit real money! for god's sakes people take your real money to a garage game or your local bar... or save it and buy into a satellite to a wsop... but there is no money for the average joe online TRUST ME

[enter_issues]

Luckly I'm still in the green with Pokerstars (not by much though) but to gain my first deposit bonus, I had to continue playing games to earn my bonus.

As my FPP's closed in to my goal, my hands became more and more suspicious.

In a $3.40 SNG, someone raised half their chips preflop. With pocket rockets, I moved all in and he called with . Flop comes 3,5,6 rainbow, then the turn comes a 7.

After regaining my chips after a few rounds, I raised with on the big blind and one guy called. Flop comes . Quite a flop, both of us went all in. He flipped pocket 10's. Turn comes then . Sirbflean mentioned action flops, and this seems mighty suspicious that I got caught in it. There was way more funny hands during my final FPP gathering escapade.

Now that I was done getting my bonus, I played one small SNG for kicks. I had to leave at one point, so I just went all in (with K6) and 2 people called me - one with QQ the other with JJ. Flop comes 6 6 4, then K, then 6 giving me 4 of a kind. I should've asked the other two with their deposit situation, but suddenly I get this funky burst of luck, and I didn't just catch the top pair, I caught an overkilling 4 of a kind - the 12th I got in 1 month. IRL it doesn't happen that often.

I should start gathering hand histories...