[Thinkerbell]

Ah, that makes sense. I still say it's imprevisible, too.

[Lytspeed]

Originally Posted by Vizzini

Imprevisible!

Originally Posted by Inigo Montoya

You keep using that word ... I do not think it means what you think it means.

A little Princess Bride reference never hurts.

[truushot]

I lose money or tournaments generally this way...

20 percent of the time I'm out carded
30 percent of the time I'm out drawn
50 percent of the time I'm bad beat/beat out.

I run into this situation all the time. In cash games. I'm up and doing well but don't want to leave because I'm doing well and the table is soft. I make all the right plays and the guy gets lucky out of his rear and I lose a large portion of my winning.

Tournaments it is the same thing. So one is always getting lucky against me or so it seems.

Yes just like everyone else, I guess wrong ocassionally or I'm QQ vs AA etc...

The things that bother me is your sitting at a table doing okay, and you get ot watch so complete donkey raking it up hitting 4 outers on the river, making his bad flush draws without the correct odds etc.. I've come to believe that online you have to be getting lucky and it is hard to do that by playing good poker. I can't believe the plays I see. Donks calling 10 dollar raises with K3 off and they end up beating KK or AA. I truly don't think that online poker is real or random. It isn't necessarily picking one person to win all the time it is just creating action flops and boards that make for more draws getting there then should.

[rambojr03]

There's no question that "luck" plays a major factor in one's success at poker. However, I still believe (regardless of the incredible suckouts I lose to night in and night out) that "skill" overwhelmingly determines whether you're a winning player or not.

Online Poker allows us to experience "luck" firsthand, due to the amount of suckouts you consistently see. In fact, I was final 3 in a $10 buy-in the other night, and was eliminated all-in (my opponent raised me enough pre-flop to put me all-in) 3rd with K's against 9 5! Of course you can't get much luckier than that, but I take pride in the fact that I win that hand 90% of the time.

However, it didn't make me any happier knowing this fact when I lost, or that this person ended up winning the overall tournament because of it. I'd still take "skill" over "luck" anyday!

[penny144]

I think some luck has to do with it! If you don't have any luck, not getting any cards all night, then most probable you will not finish on the last table. But yes skill, positioning, odds have a lot to do with where you will ultimitely finish in a tourney. If you have no skills, you won't get far with only luck on your side. Knowing how to play your hands and being patient does make you a better player.

My two cents...

[Lytspeed]

I hang out with a bunch of gaming geeks, most of whom like Hold'Em. However, one woman in our group is firmly convinced that there is no game to Hold'Em, and that every game depends entirely on luck and the ability to do mathematical analysis. In her view, math whizzes would all play every hand exactly the same, based on the cards they receive, and the game becomes entirely about luck from that point. She sees no enjoyable challenge to the game, and therefore won't play it.

We've tried to explain to her that poker is a mental game, and is much more about reading other players and using bets strategically than counting cards, but she won't hear it. She maintains the position that there is too much luck involved, and not enough skill.

Oh well. I guess it's her loss.