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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 08-24-06, 06:46 AM
burea1124 burea1124 is offline
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Default How to let go of AQ two pair? GRR!!

Middle stage in a tournament. 8 people at my table. blinds were like 50/100 and I had about 8000. The guy to the left of me was a LAG bluffer with 9000.

I raised from early position with AQ offsuit and he called. I accidentally clicked the minimum-raise button but I would have usually raised 3x 4x BB instead of 2x. Everyone else folded.

The flop was J 7 6 rainbow. I checked and he bet about 1/3 pot. I called because he bets his 2nd,3rd pairs a lot so I put him on something like A7 or A6.

The turn was an Ace. I had Ace with great kicker but checked again. Now he bet about 1/2 pot. I thought my read was right but the price wasn't too bad so I decided to just call.

The river was a Queen. Now I had two pair. I checked again and he bet pot.

As I looked over the board, a funny thing happened to me. I said "the only hand that can beat me right here is KT but he might have this" I actually considered just calling instead of raising.

However, I thought about the likelihood of him having that hand and the fact that he bet all three rounds with that, I thought it was more likely that he had something like A7.

I decided to raise all-in, he called instantly. He had KT.

....... anger + rage

What the hell should I have done?

And what does everyone think about just calling a pot-sized bet even when you have Aces, two-pair, trips or set when there is a straight or flush draw?
(in order to secure yourself from elimination)
Is that the better way to play in a tournament?

Last edited by BBP Guru : 08-24-06 at 11:40 AM. Reason: Use of inappropriate language
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 08-24-06, 07:39 AM
sunnypoker sunnypoker is offline
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first of all your min raise, i nkow it's not your fault but it caused anyone to call with a wide range of hands.

secondly, take control of the pot, continuation bet. the flop is relatively dry and would have give decent draws to hands like 54 or 89
bet out a decent two thirds of the pot.

your check calling on the flop and turn was the problem. you gave him the opportunity to draw out on you, as you dodn't make any bet on the way to make him fold. again, the flop would have been the best place to bet on your part. you didn't do it, so you got out drawn, and you shouldn't be mad about it because u didn't do anything about it. it's your fault.

if you put him on A7,A6 well calling would be the wrong thing to do given the situation you would be seeking to hit the queen only in the turn as the ace would give him 2 pair according to your reads.
chances of hitting your Q on the turn? 6% or 15.5 to 1.
the pot odds are giving you 4-1 if he bet a third of the pot.
that means you should only call if you think you have the implieds odds of getting more chips out of your opponents once that queen hits.

the pot was 550 on the flop, he probably bet 200, which means, that you should onlly call so that if you do hit your queen on the turn, you'll be able to extract an extra 2200 chips out of him. you make the decisions if you could have.

unfortunately you called and the ace hit the turn.
now according to your reads he has 2 pair. youhave a pair.
he bet half the pot so that's abot 500 into a 950 pot.
your chances of beating his two pair is if u hit your two pair or if a jack hits to give you the higher two pair (with a better kicker), so you are drawing to 6 outs.
that's 12%, or 7 to 1, pot odds are right now 3 to 1, so again, only call if u can extract an extra 2000 or more out of him on the river when you do hit.

sticking to your reads, raising him on the river was the right thing to do i guess.

all this was assuming you put your opponent specifically on a7,a6
now you'll probably have to put your opponent on a wide range of hands so the odds will get much different even for me to calculate and i'm notgood at it.

if you put him on any sort of draw, you should have bet out on the turn when you hit your ace to not give your opponent the odds of drawing out on you.

you never made any bet on the way and called passively all the way, there's no one to blame but yourself.

as for his daring play, well done for him on taking control of the pot and getting chips out of you, if i were him i would have bet 3/4 of the pot.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 08-24-06, 09:26 AM
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Thinkerbell Thinkerbell is offline
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I think this is when your intuition comes into play. You knew deep down that you were beat--but your rational mind couldn't accept it. You even thought about the hand that had you beat. But you kept going. I've done this myself many times, ignored a feeling that something wasn't right. And boy, what a price we pay when we do that!

The problem is that although you always find out when you're wrong in a situation like this (because you lose), you can never be sure when you're right unless the other player shows his cards. If you lay down what you think is the winning hand, and you never find out what the other player had, you're always plagued with doubt about if you did the right thing.

So unless you play on televised games where you can watch it later and know for sure if you did the right thing or not, you just have to listen to that little voice that's telling you to watch out.
Be afraid. Be very afraid.
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Old 08-24-06, 10:09 AM
sunnypoker sunnypoker is offline
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to be honest it's not easy putting your opponent on KT in that situation.
he could have easily had AA, slow played you preflop and bet all the way till the river, or even QQ.

the best thing he could do is to stick to his reads and the range of hands he could be holding and play accordingly. KT definitely not one of them.

(you ddin't think he had KT on flop/turn, why would u suddenly believe he has KT and hit a straight because that queen came?
play poker, make rational decisions, not to "follow that little voice inside your head" unless you are very experienced that your little voices inside the head actually reflect your subconcious thoughts based on past experience.
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Old 08-25-06, 02:47 PM
burea1124 burea1124 is offline
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Thanks for the pointers!!!

I definitely agree that I was too passive. I'm more reluctant to bluff against LAGS because they call with anything but in this situation, he probably would have folded to the flop with a continuatino bet of little more than half the pot.

Or I should have just folded to his flop bet. I chased without real purpose. I think I will never check-call again unless I have a monster hand, I have a great draw, or when a scare card hits.
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Old 08-25-06, 03:00 PM
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iceberg iceberg is offline
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I think that you may have also overlooked the possibility of 66 or 77 for a set on the flop. Your biggest boo-boo was going all-in, when calling and taking a good size pot or minor beat would have been better.
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Old 08-25-06, 05:25 PM
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elon05 elon05 is offline
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I have to agree with some of the other players. There were defenitely a lot more hands then just KT that you needed to be afraid of. With all of the betting he was doing I would of probably put him on a set. I would of been wrong but I would have still gotten out of the hand. I think your biggest mistake was calling the bet after the flop when neither of you cards hit. if you honestly thought he had a pair after the flop then you had no business staying in the hand.
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