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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 08-25-06, 03:11 PM
burea1124 burea1124 is offline
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Default Why am I stupid? Folding AJ to AT2 flop

early in the tournament. I raise early position x3 BB with AJ offsuit.
A tight player calls to the right. A LAG calls to the right of him.
pot = about 100

The flop comes AT2. Ace and 2 are spades.
I bet 3/4 pot. Tight player calls LAg calls.
pot about = 325
I put tight player on Ace middle and LAG on spades draw.

The turn comes 2.
I bet pot making it about 650. I have 750 left. The tight player puts me all-in. The LAG folds.

I'm thinking from the beginning hmm if anybody called with AT i would be in trouble. But I call anyways because I'm stupid. He turns over AT.

Well here we go .. the things that I did wrong

1. So early in the tournament. I commit all my chips with just one pair.
2. He was tight. The last time he had A6 and flop came AJ8 he check-called. I should have given him credit.

Ace with Jack kicker.

What the hell do I do? Is this like the situation where I had AK and flop came A 7 7 and I called all-in against someone with J7?

Why do I keep making this mistake?
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 08-25-06, 05:28 PM
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elon05 elon05 is offline
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Your problem is the same problem that so many poker players have in that you over analyze the strength of a pair of aces. A pair is just a pair and often one pair is not gonna win you the hand even if it is a pair of aces.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 08-25-06, 06:00 PM
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Thinkerbell Thinkerbell is offline
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Because hope springs eternal?

(You do know the definition of insanity, right? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result?)
Be afraid. Be very afraid.
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Old 08-25-06, 07:39 PM
burea1124 burea1124 is offline
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grr ...

yes i should stop calling big raises with just aces

although I thought I was pot committed after the turn, I probably should have folded
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Old 08-25-06, 09:00 PM
sunnypoker sunnypoker is offline
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i think you have to learn about pot control.

your eithe going to be way ahead in the hand or way behind.

all you have is a pair of aces and you are out of position, so you don't want to build the pot up.

i would have personally checked there,
thing is, in a flop like AT2(2), what hands are your opponentns likely to have?

Any Ace-x, besides AK (he would have raised), to AT and A2, you are already beat, the rest you are ahead.
other possibilities: Tx, other pair, or even KQ for a gutshot.
how many outs do these people have? with one card to come, any A-x below A-T is drawing to 3 outs to beat you, Tx is drawing to 2 outs, as hitting his other x card wouldn't beat your higher two pair. KQ or KJ is drawing to 3 outs for his straight.

on the other end of things, AT, A2, TT, AK,AQ has you beat already.
and you are drawing slim, to 2~3 outs.

there's only one out to come, so you are going to be either about 93% favourite, or behind.

what does this mean? there's no need to bet the pot,
if you bet the pot, the hands that are behind were going to fold anyway, but if your opponent had a hand that already beats you, you are pot commited to call.

checking wouldn't be a bad idea, as it would keep the pot small.

pot is 325, so if you check, your opponent will bet 150, the other opponent would probably fold so now you are heads up.
with 600 in the pot, you check, and if he's going to be aggressive or have a strong hand he's going to bet again, if he bets strong (ie 500ish or above) there's no need for you to call with a marginal hand, if he bets small, you can either call or fold, but if you do call (ie for 200~300 is bet), you won't be losing all of your chips.

alternatively, you could have bet 150 in to that pot, if you get called, river is likely going to go check-check, or check, he bets , you fold. that way you are only putting 150 in more to find out where you are, while also having the opportunity to win the pot with the bet. (if your opponent raises, it's an immediate fold)

remember that the bet of 150 will do exactly the same affect as the 325 pot bet. you are either way ahead or way behind, if you are way ahead, your half-pot bet isn't giving your opponent the odds to call anyway, and will save you money if you are beat already.
one thing you are missing out is if your bet turns out to be a value bet that an a-rag is going to call, however, i would choose to pot control rather than hope it's a value bet, especially because i am out of position
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Old 08-25-06, 09:02 PM
sunnypoker sunnypoker is offline
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um,,, ok i didn't see the spade draw on the board, that could complicate things.,

but i would still opt to do the same thing.
you are out of position with a marginal hand, especially against two callers.

don't build a pot, and if you face resistance, fold, it's early in the game.

actually, it's AJo, don't even play it early position early in the tourney,there's the root of your problem
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Old 08-26-06, 07:55 AM
burea1124 burea1124 is offline
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Thanks a lot as always, sunnypoker!

Yes, I now realize that I make many mistakes when I'm in early position with Aces.

I will no longer get myself pot committed with only a pair and especially fold poisonous hands wrapped in candy like AJ from early position.
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Old 08-26-06, 12:27 PM
Kylebikinas13 Kylebikinas13 is offline
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Default aces

For the most part, I agree with Elon. A pair is really just a pair, and can be beaten easily, even if is a pair of aces. But, unfortunately I tend to do the same thing as you, If I see that my ace hit and the other two cards are lower than my jack, I'm going to bet huge to try to get rid of any chasers that want to hit their flush/straight. A big bet will tell other players that either you have something big, or little to nothing and you want to protect it. So I would bet large off the flop if i saw my ace, but also what i try to do is take into consideration the suits of the cards on the board and the possibilities for a flush, sets, etc.
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