[wheeloftime]

Let me start out by saying again thanks. The wealth of knowledge is astounding here. I never thought i'd say this but you guys/girls are awesome. You know what your doing but arent afraid to share it and pass it on. Okay on to the problem.

Final table. My consistency of getting to the final table has improved alot. (thanks in part to your site) But i still have problems at the final table. Where is the line between aggressive and stupid? How do you deal with overly aggressive players who are jumping in every other hand with 3x and 4x bets?Normally I end up between 4 th and 6 th when im able to hit final table. I would like to see that improve. Where is the line drawn?



Ode to the poker gods

[Lytspeed]

Hi Wheel,

Congratulations on improving your consistency. That's an important thing to learn. (I know, because I'm still learning it. )

One thing to consider is that it's important to change strategy with the attrition on the final table. It's necessary to loosen up and play hands you might not necessarily play, and it's critical to play them confidently and take into account your opponents' playing styles. This is what your opponents are doing that's intimidating you, I'm guessing. They know you are playing tight and consistently, so when they have a decent hand, they are pushing hard, figuring you will fold. You may need to start learning to push back some, but only practice will help you determine what strategy ultimately works best for you.

Also, keep in mind that there are much better players than me in this forum; I'm okay, but my play level can't match some of these guys, like BBP Guru, elon, or dconnerii. Hopefully some of these other players will chime in and give different (and better) responses.

[dovla]

congratulations for good plays and improvement wheel

my opinion is that on final table - everything is possible.. i'm talking about final tables in multi-table tourneys on titan (full table - titan blind structure) i think the skill/luck ratio it's 50-50% there. in marathon tourneys (with blinds raising on 15 or 20 minutes that ratio is in bigger advantage of skill). not unusual to see that lowest stack on final table wins the tourney at the end. i think final table strategy is the thing that everybody still can improve.

here is my opinion (i like to call it observation)
first of all blinds on final table are really high. your strategy must depend of how much chips you brought to table. there are 3 scenarios:

1) if you entered final table with short stack (for 3-5 rounds) you must move with decent hands (even with marginal ones) - of course it depends of position too. if you let bigger stacks to bully your blinds, you will get into problem, so if you are left with stack for 2-3 bbs, you can't get a good value of your good hands (ex. you are waiting your hand, and you don't get a premium one, when you're left in 2-3bbs, you get AQ or AJ. you must move with that, but if you have 2-3BBs stack, you can't scary bigger stacks of not calling with marginals, and there is great possibility that you will be called with more than one player, and you need great luck to win that hand). so my strategy when i have stack for 3-5 rounds i will move with solid hand (like pair of sevens) to try to steal the blinds. if i get a caller in most of cases i would have coin flip and there you need poker gods to help you. the point is to have a round for free so you can't be eaten by blinds, and you buy time for waiting the right hand for doubling

2) if you enter into final table with medium stack. i'm playing my normal game. positional play, raising with premium hands, if i'm broke with cards i'm waiting for others to kick each other. really rare you can limp here (everybody will try to bully and to steal the blinds). so i don't play marginal hands like J10, suited connectors and low pps from early position. good money is waiting in top5 (that's half of full table) - great money in top3.. so patience is the key here.

3) you're big stack-chip leader in the time you entered final table. almost the same style like in 2nd case only more aggresive play. that means: playing bigger number of hands than in 1st one, stealings from late positions, and putting pressure on low stacks with solid hands. you must agree: peoples are afraid of big stacks. even if you have decent stack, in late stage of a tourney you are afraid to play against bigger stack because that can be your last hand in tourney (and you have stack, so you want more money) . so knowing that (because i'm not quite often chip leader at FT) i'll act in that way - remember: people are scared of you!

but that's only my point of view, i hope it can help (but i'm still a begginer, so don't know is that usefull)

and, don't try to use this thread when you're playing against me

[elon05]

hey Dovla where did you copy and past that strategy from lol. Who is really after the 5 points this week.

[Lytspeed]

Actually, I'm pretty sure Dovla actually wrote this post. English is not his first language, but he's quite prolific as an English writer.

Good job, Dovla.

[dovla]

Originally Posted by elon05

hey Dovla where did you copy and past that strategy from lol.

lol, i don't use that option.. that post took me about half an hour (of writing and changing grammar mistakes)! i don't post for 5 points, i only don't like when i'm rivered with 5 pages copy/paste post. lol

[wheeloftime]

so what you are saying is there are three basis to your frame of play. or frame of mind. Your style pretty much depends on your chip stack. the other is confidence? Going to have to work on shifting thought process then. Yes i tend to stay in the same mind set that got me there. So as you get into the final tables you need to play accordingly? am i understanding this right?This is going to take some work.


Ode to the poker gods

[Lytspeed]

Originally Posted by wheeloftime

So as you get into the final tables you need to play accordingly? am i understanding this right?This is going to take some work.

It sounds like you got the gist of it, Wheel. And yes, it does take some work to be able to adjust playing style on the fly, but the more you practice, the better you'll get. The BBP freerolls are a good place to practice, because they don't cost you anything except some posting time to enter, and the level of play is generally much higher than the level of play on multi-table freerolls or play money tables.

[dovla]

with more played games you would have more experience.. i play it only for 6-7 months, and my playing style may be different from game to game. and i agree that bbp is the best online place where you can learn. BBP freeroll is awesome event where everybody learnt too much - i can honestly say that improved 100% since i'm playing here

and that about final table was my theory.. sure it depends of stack you enter into. if you're short stacked, you don't have blinds to wait premium hand.. sometimes you don't get hands at all so you must move with first decent one because there is big chance you'll be eaten by blinds.. but position is the key for me in any game. (after 6 months i founded that).. you read players on table.. against tight ones, AK can bad hand, so it really depends which opponent you have on other side. it's all a pratice thing, and of LUCK of course..

[wheeloftime]

BBp has been a great help and support and i havent been here that long. They are willing to help and advise when asked. I left other forums because id get answers like because. and i even had one ask me if i was stupid because i had the nerve to question what he was talking about. I wont mention the forum but i wanted to reach through the telephone line and %%$@#&&$#@&%$#. twice. But anyway, i will surely try to adjust my tactics. I still havent broke myself of chasing.but thats another practice in progress. thanks.





ode to the poker gods